The Formula One Thread

PARIS (Reuters) - McLaren were stripped all of their points in the 2007 Formula One constructors championship and fined $100 million (50 million pounds) in the spying case, a World Motor Sports Council source said on Thursday.

However, McLaren drivers Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso have kept their points in this year's championship.

Asked if justice had been done, the president of the FIA Max Mosley said "Yes".

:|
 
afraidtoshooteddie said:
PARIS (Reuters) - McLaren were stripped all of their points in the 2007 Formula One constructors championship and fined $100 million (50 million pounds) in the spying case, a World Motor Sports Council source said on Thursday.

However, McLaren drivers Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso have kept their points in this year's championship.

Asked if justice had been done, the president of the FIA Max Mosley said "Yes".

:|
Click to expand...

Why the :| ............
They cheated............
As much as I hate to say it Alonso & Hamilton probably had nothing to do with it :?
So just punishing the team was probably the only fair thing to do :|
There was obviously enough evidence to prove wrong had been done :|
Meaning Alonso & Hamilton had been using 'secrets' on the cars....
But they werent to know :err:

Plus throwing em outta the Championship woulda cost too much revenue
so probably wasnt an option :roll:
 
rockin_plumber said:
Why the :| ............
They cheated............
As much as I hate to say it Alonso & Hamilton probably had nothing to do with it :?
So just punishing the team was probably the only fair thing to do :|
There was obviously enough evidence to prove wrong had been done :|
Meaning Alonso & Hamilton had been using 'secrets' on the cars....
But they werent to know :err:

Plus throwing em outta the Championship woulda cost too much revenue
so probably wasnt an option :roll:
Click to expand...

It was a :| , because there was obviously a case to answer.

It was a nobody likes to see cheating in sport, :| .
 
"The WMSC has stripped Vodafone McLaren Mercedes of all constructor
points in the 2007 FIA Formula One World Championship and the team can
score no points for the remainder of the season," the FIA said in a
statement.

0 points then LOL LOL LOL

McLaren will also have to present its 2008 car for examination by the FIA
before the start of next season.

“The WMSC will receive a full technical report on the 2008 McLaren car
and will take a decision at its December 2007 meeting as to what sanction,
if any, will be imposed on the team for the 2008 season,” read the
statement

That should give em enuff time to remove any Ferrari branding off the cars
then :err:
 
afraidtoshooteddie said:
It was a :| , because there was obviously a case to answer.

It was a nobody likes to see cheating in sport, :| .
Click to expand...

Ok LOL
I didnt know where ur loyalties were :wink:

I agree..........
But If they punish the drivers it woulda been a bit harsh.......
Maybe take 20 points off each of em :err:would be fair :D
 
rockin_plumber said:
Ok LOL
I didnt know where ur loyalties were :wink:

I agree..........
But If they punish the drivers it woulda been a bit harsh.......
Maybe take 20 points off each of em :err:would be fair :D
Click to expand...


I like the Honda Team :oops:

I seem to be a sucker for the crap teams.

I like Derby County too :| :Shhh:
 
So Alonso & De La Rosa were in on it as well :|
This changes my opinion about only punishing the team then....
The evidence suggests they tried some of the Ferrari settings etc...
But may or may not have used this info :|

Here is an exract from a 14-page summary of the new evidence
the FIA has published

The emails between de la Rosa and Alonso appear to contradict a core
element of McLaren’s defence – that confidential Ferrari information was
not circulated within the team but was held by a single ‘rogue’ employee
for his own purposes.

In emails sent in late March and early April, extracts of which are
published in the FIA’s report, de la Rosa and Alonso discussed information
gleaned from Stepney about the design and performance of Ferrari’s
F2007 car.

On 21 March, de la Rosa emailed Coughlan asking for information about
the Ferrari’s weight distribution, saying “it would be important for us to
know so that we could try it in the simulator” and adding that “I will be in
the simulator tomorrow”.

After receiving a reply by text message, he then emailed Alonso four days
later setting out Ferrari’s weight distribution to two decimal places on each
of the Maranello team’s cars for the Australian Grand Prix.

When Alonso questioned the reliability of the data, de la Rosa replied: “All
the information from Ferrari is very reliable.

“It comes from Nigel Stepney, their former chief mechanic – I don’t know
what place he holds now.

“He’s the same person who told us in Australia that Kimi [Raikkonen] was
stopping in lap 18.

So they knew about pit stop strategy which is something that helps win
a race :shock: :shock: :shock:
Ok Kimi won Australia... but how many other races did they get info for :|


Its bad on Hamilton.........
And he either knew or he didnt :|
But maybe they shoulda been thrown out for this season & next :x :x
At the very least Alonso & De La Rosa should get a ban :|
 
I can't help thinking that if Ferrari had trustworthy employees non of this would have happened :| Not sticking up for Mclaren, things like this in "sport" piss me right off :|
I've supported them for years, don't know what I feel now :(
 
McLaren boss Ron Dennis has revealed that he was the source of the new evidence that prompted the FIA to revisit the spying case.

The governing body reconvened the World Motor Sport Council after additional evidence came to light, the core of which was an exchange of emails between McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa and world champion Fernando Alonso.

As a result, McLaren was thrown out of the 2007 constructors' championship and hit with a record fine.

Dennis said at Spa on Friday that he approached the FIA as soon as he became aware of the existence of the emails.

“Once I became aware that new evidence might exist which I did on the morning of the Hungarian GP (5 August), I immediately phoned the FIA to keep them informed,” he said.

Dennis added that McLaren is still considering whether to appeal Thursday's WMSC verdict.

“We now have seven days to appeal and are carefully considering the company’s position once we have a full understanding of the FIA’s findings,” he said.
 
Bockaaarck said:
McLaren boss Ron Dennis has revealed that he was the source of the new evidence that prompted the FIA to revisit the spying case.

The governing body reconvened the World Motor Sport Council after additional evidence came to light, the core of which was an exchange of emails between McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa and world champion Fernando Alonso.

As a result, McLaren was thrown out of the 2007 constructors' championship and hit with a record fine.

Dennis said at Spa on Friday that he approached the FIA as soon as he became aware of the existence of the emails.

“Once I became aware that new evidence might exist which I did on the morning of the Hungarian GP (5 August), I immediately phoned the FIA to keep them informed,” he said.

Dennis added that McLaren is still considering whether to appeal Thursday's WMSC verdict.

“We now have seven days to appeal and are carefully considering the company’s position once we have a full understanding of the FIA’s findings,” he said.
Click to expand...
Looks like I need to do more reading bout it later :oops: That makes me feel better about supporting them :)
 
Bockaaarck said:
McLaren boss Ron Dennis has revealed that he was the source of the new evidence that prompted the FIA to revisit the spying case.

The governing body reconvened the World Motor Sport Council after additional evidence came to light, the core of which was an exchange of emails between McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa and world champion Fernando Alonso.
Click to expand...

Parhaps Ron Dennis should have done the honourable thing and sacked
Alonso & De La Rosa then :|
 
Why, for example, are the drivers free to race? If McLaren and its drivers
have been declared guilty of acquiring and using illegal information -- the
drivers evidently privy to said information through their season, then they
should be held equally guilty. Reports of an email from De la Rosa to
Alonso saying: "I have learned how Ferrari exploit the Bridgestone tyres
and how the braking system works on the Ferrari. Coughlan has told us.
He got it from Stepney.

....reports claim, an email exchange between McLaren's technical director
Paddy Lowe (AND STILL DOING THIS JOB!!!) , test driver Pedro de
la Rosa and Fernando Alonso -
something that clearly showed their knowledge of, and willingness to
exploit, the knowledge of Ferrari equipment. Rumours were abuzz that
Alonso, clearly dissatisfied with the lack of preferential treatment at
McLaren, played whistleblower in exchange for immunity from the scam.

Their poor little British team can't possibly be as innocent as they claim.
The FIA has always been accused of Ferrari-favoritism, but expelling
McLaren for an entire season (and possibly next year) is a massive step.
Vodafone McLaren Mercedes is one of the biggest teams in the sport, and,
with other sponsors like Johnnie Walker and Hugo Boss, generates some
of the biggest revenue to the sport. For the FIA to look past all that and
disqualify McLaren means there is serious evidence of foul play!!!!

The FIA's reason for this is clear, and they seem reluctant and
helpless. 'Due to the exceptional circumstances in which the FIA gave the
team's drivers an immunity in return for providing evidence, there is no
penalty in regard to drivers' points,' the FIA statement said, explaining the
verdict.

So basically.........
The FIA siad to the drivers give us evidence, we know someone is guilty....
Tell us what we already know is true and we will punish the teams and
not the drivers :|

Thanks to the McLaren ban, even if their drivers score points in the next
few races, no one from the team will be allowed to take a place on the
podium. So a McLaren one-two could conceivably mean Felipe Massa
standing alone on step three of the podium, next to two unclaimed bottles
of champagne.

Not quite the dream way to win the Drivers Championship.


No matter how much we have raved about Lewis Hamilton, that mega
natural talent, what could be his debut World Championship will always be
clouded by the fact that his team cheated to help him win it.
 
Blimey the more I read the worse it looks....
De La Rosa & Alonso really saved their asses by doing a deal with the FIA :|

According to the evidence, on March 21 2007, de la Rosa wrote to
Coughlan:

"Hi Mike, do you know the Red Car's Weight Distribution? It would be
important for us to know so that we could try it in the simulator. Thanks in
advance, Pedro.

p.s. I will be in the simulator tomorrow."

De la Rosa confirmed that Coughlan replied by text message with precise
details of Ferrari's weight distribution. On March 25, de la Rosa sent an e-
mail to Alonso that described Ferrari's weight distribution to two decimal
places on each of Ferrari's two cars as setup for the Australian Grand Prix.
Alonso replied via e-mail and said: "Its weight distribution surprises me; I
don't know either if it's 100% reliable, but at least it draws attention."

According to the FIA, the e-mail continued with a discussion of how
McLaren's weight distribution compared with Ferrari's. De la Rosa said: "All
the information from Ferrari is very reliable. It comes from Nigel Stepney,
their former chief mechanic-I don't know what post he holds now. He's the
same person who told us in Australia that (Ferrari driver) Kimi
(Raikkonen) was stopping in lap 18. He's very friendly with Mike Coughlan,
our Chief Designer, and he told him that."

In the same e-mail exchange of March 25, de la Rosa stated that tests had
been carried out on a flexible rear wing that de la Rosa described as "a
copy of the system we think Ferrari uses." The Ferrari car's precise aero
balance at 250 kph was also identified.

As part of their e-mail exchange, de la Rosa also identified a gas that
Ferrari uses to inflate its tires to reduce internal temperature and
blistering. The e-mail concludes: "We'll have to try it, it's easy!" Alonso
replied that it was "very important" for McLaren to test the gas, as
Ferrari "have something different from the rest," and "not only this year.
There is something else and this may be the key; let's hope we can test it
during this test, and that we can make it a priority!" De la Rosa replied: "I
agree 100% that we must test the thing very soon."

On April 12, de la Rosa wrote to Coughlan and asked: "Can you explain to
me as much as you can, Ferrari's braking system with the [reference to
detailed technical information]? Are they adjusting from inside the
cockpit?"

After a number of exchanges about whether a description would be too
complicated to articulate by e-mail, Coughlan replied with a technical
description which purports to be a description of the principles
underpinning Ferrari's braking system. Ferrari confirmed to the FIA that
the description was accurate (though incomplete). "We are looking at
something similar," Coughlan said in his e-mail.

The FIA determined that this statement "strongly suggests that the
McLaren system was being worked on from a position of knowledge of the
details of the Ferrari system, which, even if the Ferrari system not being
directly copied, must be more advantageous to McLaren than designing a
system without such knowledge."

The FIA statement continues: "Evidence before the WMSC also
demonstrates that Stepney had fed information through Coughlan
regarding which lap one or more of the Ferrari drivers would stop at
during the Bahrain Grand Prix.
 
wicky said:
That's what I was getting at :|

This thread sums up my feelings ....

http://forums.itv.com/thread/604161.aspx
Click to expand...

Yeah Coughlan is still suspended I think, Alonso Still racing :|
& De La Rosa Still a test driver....
McLaren's current technical director Paddy Lowe looks to be implicated somewhere :|
Things have been mentioned about :-
Ferrari's brake control system,
Weight Distribution,
Tests on a Flexible rear wing that Ferrari were using,
And about testing the gas Ferrari use to inflate tyres to keep down temperatures......

Either way some or all have these have been tested or used on the Mclarens.....
As well as the info about when Ferrari would be making their pit stops :|

I did feel a bit sorry for Ron when he was reading his statement, and
Hamilton... these two seem to be innocent...... either that or they aint stupid
enough to admit it.........

So yes as they must have used this data McLaren deserved a punishment,
As do Coughlan, Lowe , Alonso & De La Rosa :|

If Ron appeals I can see things getting worse and more scandal appearing :|

Maybe the FIA should just cancel the rest of the season of they aint got the balls to punish all who were guilty instead of making deals with them :|
 
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