Beheadings
- Thread starter Rays cyst
- Start date
bluefish21
New Member
The beheadings are barbarism, plain and simple. Most Americans realize that these fanatics do not represent the vast majority of muslims. However, the most vivid emotion right now is anger. But I don't think it will cause the U.S. to stoop to the level of these savages. Nevertheless, if we are attacked again in our homeland the way we were on 9/11, the U.S. will become so belligerent that all bets wil be off.Rays cyst said:
sketchy
Member
bluefish21 said:
Fuck that noise.
Most Americans have the image of muslims attacking the US ... nothing more nothing less. They are clueless and are going to go along with whatever George Bush Jr. choses to do. The most vivid emotion is fear and ignorance and total disregard for reason, not anger.
bluefish21
New Member
I'm sorry if that's what you believe. You are mistaken. I get my news from many sources, both inside and outside of the U.S. media and I can see the way the news is spun elsewhere as well as here. The European media also spoon-feeding the news to it's audience, only the message is different.BoBo said:Aren't bets aleardy off?US goverment is already behaving like they rule the world.
You work 10-12 hours a day, you come home exhausted from the work and turn the TV on. Then they start feeding you with the "news".
EDIT: "You" as average US citizen.
bluefish21
New Member
I don't know where you live because you put jiberish down instead of a location. However, be that as it may, if you are familiar with what's going on in the U.S., you know that support for George Bush is about 50%. Therefore, obviously we "...don't go along with whatever George Bush choses to do." If most Americans have the image of Muslims attacking the U.S., maybe it's because many of them are, and many more support what those who attack us are doing. About 50% of Saudi Arabians say they support Osama bin Laden's call to jihad, if not his methods. Remember we weren't at war with anyone before 9/11/2001.sketchy said:
Let's put the recent spate of beheadings and low grade violence (i.e., small scale) aside for the sake of argument. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed by Islamic extremists. In 1996 the Khobar Towers were bombed killing a number of U.S. servicement. In 1998, our embasies in Kenya and Tanzania were attacked killing over 200 civillians, mostly Africans. In 2000, the U.S.S. Cole was attacked in Yemen. And, of course, in 2001, we were attacked in September 11 killing about 3,000 Americans. All of these acts were carried out by Muslims in the name of Islam. Is it any wonder why so many Americans believe we were being attacked by Muslims? After all we were and continue to be. But still we know that these fanatics do not represent the 1.3 billion Muslims of the world.
Here's another perspective. Why are Islamic extremists beheading Americans now? The Iraq war? Maybe. But then why are Muslims beheading Christians in Nigeria, Indonesia and Phillipines, all before the Iraq war? Why have Muslims beheaded Hindu priests and unveiled women in Kashmir?
I don't follow Bush or any politician on all matters. I decide my position based on the circumstances surrounding each issue. My eyes are wide open with what's going on in the world. I see what Morrocan extrmists have done in Spain and what they ultimately would like to do. I see Muslims in France groing in number and anger with the French government over religious clothing and hate speech in Mosques. I've read of calls for Sharia by Muslim clerics in in The Netherlands and the U.K. I see the violence in Chechnia and Russia.
bluefish21
New Member
It depends on who are allies with Iraq? What do you mean?sketchy said:
BoBo
Active Member
My above comment was about average american. Not directed to anyone in particular.
What about Israel and middle east? Sure, you were not officialy involved in the war(s), but without your support Israel would not behave like they did or do. That's the reason why they are attacking US in the last 10 years. They are attacking innocent civilians, but your goverment isn't innocent for sure.
Do they want situation resolved over there? No. Stable situation is not in the interest of US, because they won't control it like they do now. Controling whole area from Israel, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Iraq. And that means controling biggest oil resources in the world.
off to watch football....
bluefish21 said:
What about Israel and middle east? Sure, you were not officialy involved in the war(s), but without your support Israel would not behave like they did or do. That's the reason why they are attacking US in the last 10 years. They are attacking innocent civilians, but your goverment isn't innocent for sure.
Do they want situation resolved over there? No. Stable situation is not in the interest of US, because they won't control it like they do now. Controling whole area from Israel, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Iraq. And that means controling biggest oil resources in the world.
off to watch football....
bluefish21
New Member
Regarding Israel, there are 2 sides to every story. Clearly, you only see Israel's wrongdoings while you ignore the acts of terrorism by Hamas and Hezbollah. Stating that a stable situation in the Middle East is not in the U.S.' best interest is nothing more than perniscious nonsense. Regarding oil, Israel and Afghanistan have virtually no oil reserves. We went into Afghanistan after 9/11 because that's where al Qaeda's base was. Saudi Arabia is not under our control. Unfortunately, we depend on them. I am very angry with my government for not developing alternative fuel sources and allowing the oil companies to continue our dependency on foriegn oil. In addition, we import more oil from Canada than we do from Saudi Arabia. Also, more than half of the oil we import comes from the western hemisphere (i.e., Canada, Mexico and Venezuela).BoBo said:
Regarding Iraq, they are scheduled to have soverienty on June 30, and there first free elections ever in January under U.N. observation. At theat point the U.S. will not control Iraq or there oil reserves play out. Let the future play out before passing judgement.
sketchy
Member
bluefish21 said:
I live in Nova Scotia .. I'm not American so no, I cant really talk for what they are thinking.
I read in ... a magazine that will remain nameless because I have forgotten the name said that in a poll .. majority of americans thought that GW Bush made the right choice in going to war with Iraq.
bluefish21
New Member
sketchy said:
bluefish21
New Member
BoBo said:
One other thing, "Judge not lest ye be judged." Croatia expelled and masacred many Serbs. Sure these atrocities were somewhat overshadowed by the deliberate strategy of ethnic cleansing, through expulsions and massacres, of Croats and sometimes other non-Serbs from Serb-controlled territories. But keen observers know of Croat atrocities as well. The world saw this. You should expend more energy getting your own house in order before you judge the U.S. The U.S., who along with our NATO allies put an end to the Balkan Wars and saved many more people form ethnic cleansing. We shouldn't hear such shrill rhetoric coming from your quarter regarding the Middle East.
bluefish21
New Member
By the way, I hear Nova Scotia is a great place. I like and respect the Canadians. The U.S. is more conservative than Canada. That's a fact. But we can still disagree and be friends. Canada is an important ally to the U.S. and I appreciate that. Our country's differences on Iraq shouldn't change that.sketchy said:
BoBo
Active Member
bluefish21 said:
I don't take sides. I don't approve acts by nither of them. But Isreal has political power and huge resources compared to Palestinians and that's why they have greater responsibility for the conflict.
bluefish21 said:
Why US doesn't force Israel to negotiations with Palestinians? One side is demolishing houses and executing palestinians leaders (it doesn't matter if they are guilty for killing many innocent people, it's execution) and the other side is sacrificing thier lifes for killing 10 times more innocent people. Everyone is watching, no one is taking steps for stoping it. Other countries are as guilty as US, but US is the only power left in the world right now. They can stop it if they really want.
bluefish21 said:
I understand all of that. It doesn't matter if you import only small percentage of oil from middle east. Your companies have contracts for oil production in SA (I don't have facts to support this, it's just my opionon based on what I've heard). And they will have major part in Iraq too.
bluefish21 said:
It's little hypocritical that you don't need UN when you want to start the war and now when you have chaos over there you want to UN to take the control.
This topic is too much for this board. We can't analyise the situation deep enough here and superficial conversation may only create a war. Not because of us two, but others, not so calmed, might start posting here. So it's better to stop it.
BoBo
Active Member
bluefish21 said:
Eh... where to start ... you would be surprised how many newspapers during the war wrote about killings of civilians. And how many people was against involment by our troups in Bosnia. Our goverment tried to create something like croatian state over there. I'm the last person that will not criticize my goverment in many ways. They are all puppets.
And involment of UN and NATO in Bosnia .... too mach to talk about. They attcked Serbs only in 99, 8 years after war started. They watched Serbs slaughtering 7,000 people in 2-3 days without reaction. Better to stop ...
bluefish21
New Member
I agree with everything you wrote. I mention the UN only because it is important to people outside of the US. You're right, the U.S. uses the UN if it can, or ignores it if they can't. But let me be clear about my personal opinion. I think the UN is a sham. Any organization where you have to have unanimous consent of the U.S., U.K., France, Russia, and China is not going to be cohesive or effective. Remember NATO went into the Balkans without a UN mandate because they knew Russia did not want the UN to intervene. If the world waited for the UN to intervene, the genocide would probably still be going on today.BoBo said:
So now you want the U.S. to resolve the Israel Palistine conflict becuase we are the only remaining superpower? I thought the world did not like the U.S. acting unilaterally, flexing its muscles, so to speak. Remember, the U.S. is only one part of the "Quartet" who proposed the roadmap to peace. The roadmap also involved the European Union, Russia, and the UN. I agree, the U.S. is not doing enough. But where is the criticism of the other 3 entities? Or don't you care because this is just another opportunity to bash the U.S.?
bluefish21
New Member
BoBo said:
Yes. NATO waited far to long. But where would Croatia be if we didn't intervene at all. My country got involved even though we had no national interest to do so. We did it to help end the genocide.
bluefish21
New Member
There should be no reason for a war in Canada. It is a good country that by and large is able to stay out of foreign entanglements. Also, God forbid that a day comes when Canada is attacked, the U.S. will fight with you becuase you are a great ally and because the U.S. would never tolerate an invasion of hostile forces on North America.sketchy said: